Thursday, 20 May 2010

Fabregas Debate

While we wait for the World Cup to start I thought I'd start a bit of a discussion on the Fabregas saga, namely the fact Barcelona have decided they definitely want to sign him this summer, & Cesc is probably ready to re-join his boyhood club.

I know we have a lot of Arsenal fans reading the blog, so I'd like your opinions...

Would you like to see Wenger make him stay for at least another season (as Ferguson did with Ronaldo), seeing he still has 4 years left on his contract? Or, if he really wants to go do you think you should take the £40million-£50million (I believe he's worth at least that given his age & ability) so Wenger can strengthen the squad with a world class keeper, replacement midfielder & central defender? If he goes, how much do you think he'd be worth? Who would be on your wish list to come in with the money?

I'll start with my personal opinion - Arsenal must keep him for at least another season. He's the heartbeat of the side and I still think that a fully fit Fabregas & Van Persie for a season could've seen Arsenal win the title this year...who knows what could happen if they buy a replacement for Almunia this summer? I've heard people saying Nasri can replace him but they're in the same quality bracket (mind you, who is?). We know Fabregas is destined for Barcelona eventually but for now it would be down to Wenger to convince him that at his age it's worth seeing what happens in 2010/11, and then try to keep everyone fit!

What do you think?

Cheers,
AM

p.s. We have almost 200 people in the World Cup Blog League already, so it's sure to be a great competition! Place are unlimited so please feel free to join. We're going with the Official FIFA World Cup Fantasy game at http://en.mcdonalds.fantasy.fifa.com/M/home.mc & the code to join is: 107956-25552

63 comments:

ars fans said...

agree.. i wan wenger to persuade him for at least another season.. i feel tat is no other replacement for him now?!

Hinrik said...

I am Arsenal-fan but understand Fabregas. He is just losing his patience. Arsenal needed 2-3 experienced players last season, but Wenger is stuck on his philosophy.

AdrmiraLordNelson said...

ayayayayayaye.

WHY the fock does this sore subject have to be the main topic of your first off-season post, I am getting sick to my stomach....ty AM....

Ahhh, but Alas, Wilshere and Ramsey should have filled this hole rather nicely and cheaply if you ask me. However, ramsey may never be the same player for Arsenal, although in five years when everyone has given up on his recovery he could be better than anyone ever expected...

there is still a hole that has to be prepared for, and I think that bringing in Pavlyuchenko is the best way to fill the hole. You bring in Roman Pavlyuchenko and Andrey plays his best form, and alongside RVP, Roman and Andrey could def win the league IMO...

if you cant get Pavy, then try to lure Bojan from Barca if they want Fabs so bad make them trade...simple as that...

been a Gunner since '79.

-ALN

rwlwhite said...

Well, where do I start? (LONG POST WARNING - SORRY!)

I guess as a huge arsenal fan I should say what I really feel is that I would like Fabregas to stay for his entire footballing career. But that is not going to happen, and I'm pretty sure every Arsenal fan knows this. His spiritual (and actual) home is Barcelona (the city), he was brought up there and began his career there, so it stands to reason that he would like to play for them, being one of the best teams in the world.

I am of the same opinion as AM in that I believe he should be persuaded at whatever cost to stay for at least 1 more season. If he goes now while the team are weak, it will be impossible for the club to achieve anything next season. Wenger, although he has a decent amount of money to spend, is more likely to want 4 or 5 players, instead of spending any transfer fee from fabregas on any 1 player, which is what he would have to pay to get a suitable replacement.

I believe that if Fabregas stays for the 2010/11 season, Wenger will bring in some quality players to play around him, the moral of the squad will build up because I believe those signings will help arsenal win something, and then if cesc still wants to leave next summer, it won't affect the squad as much.

If he is to go this summer, I honestly believe the club should not accept anything less than £50million. This is an astronomical amount of money for a 23 year old, however he is one of the best players in the world in my opinion. He will be for the next decade. He has 4 years left on his contract at the Emirates and I believe that the club should be compensated handsomely for losing such a player. There is talk of Yaya Toure coming to the club in return as well, which I am still undecided on. He is more defensive than Cesc, and I believe he could be a bit disruptive to the flow of the squad.

If I had to throw a name into the mix for a fabregas replacement, and don't all pounce on me at once here, but what about a certain scouse midfielder?! Steven Gerrard is an awesome player, who runs the midfield (the whole team really), scores goals, assists goals, and can take set pieces. All the traits that Fabregas has, ans he is now at a team where he will not be playing Champions League football for at least another year. I know there are massive clubs like Real Madrid desperate for him, but I feel that he would prefer to stay in England if he could, and I think he would be made to feel more at home at Arsenal than Man City or Chelsea, as they have too many big names as it is (I think too many big names detracts from any one player - you try getting the egos of John Terry, Ashley Cole, Frank Lampard, Didier Drogba AND a Steven Gerrard into the same team and you have a recipe for disaster - on a side note, that is why I think England never achieve what they should, each player expects to be the daddy but they can't all be the main person!) Anyhow, it wouldn't happen I don't think but he is the only player I believe is worthy of replacing Fabregas if he goes.

Right, those are my opinions, don't vindicate me for them, I just don't want to see Arsenal crumble by losing one player. I believe Cesc should stay for another season to try and win something, if not then he can move on. If he goes, I would like to see Wenger pick up his balls and sign a big name for a change - Stevie G would be my preference but it'd never happen.

Another option would be some sort of John Travolta/Nicholas Cage style Face/Off scenario whereby we switch Fabregas face onto Arshavin's and give Arshavin to Barcelona in return for £50 million. I'll even learn to do the surgery myself!

AdrmiraLordNelson said...

Fabs for Bojan...do like American sports teams do and fockang trade players instead of all this buying nonsense....

Assistant Manager said...

Great post RWL - I agree with a lot of what you say & your dream of Gerrard may come true, as he's definitely on the move...

...his house is for sale!

AdrmiraLordNelson said...
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AdrmiraLordNelson said...
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rwlwhite said...

ALN - I did say it's not likely to happen. If Gerrard goes anywhere it'll be Cheslea or Real Madrid, but it's the only thing that would appease me if Fabregas left (except a transfer fee nearing 9 figures! But that wouldn't happen either!)

AdrmiraLordNelson said...
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AdrmiraLordNelson said...
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AdrmiraLordNelson said...

Arsenal should snatch Bily and Roman Pvalyuchenko....then trade Fabs for Bojan Krkic...end of story, best move possible for the Gunners!

Jon said...

As a Gunner since 1977 there are a few players that stick in my mind as iconic - Brady, Adams, Wright, PV4, Dennis and TH14.

Cesc is, in my opinion, worthy of joining that list.

I think, unfortunately, that it is inevitable that Fab4 will leave. If we can hold on to him for another season then I think we should - and maybe if we can keep everyone fit and add 2 or 3 top quality players then we might even persuade him to stay another year ...

But they key thing has to be his heart. If his heart is to leave, then AW should let him leave - he has never been one for keeping a player who's head has been turned.

But please play hardball!! We have one of the best young midfielders in the world. He is no CRon, but if Kaka (5 years older) can go for £60 million, then that is the bracket Fab must fit into, just becos he is already so good and is just going to improve over the next few years.

Players that I would like to see from Barca as part of the deal - maybe Toure, but he seems hesitant. Maybe Ibra, which would mean EdS would leave.

It will undoubtedly be a sad day when Fab4 leaves, but i do believe that AW will have been thinking about that day for a while now, and will have a plan for taking the team forward without Cesc.

Anonymous said...

\_BAN said...

I think Cecs will leave Gunners to Barca!
But Gunners really need Cecs!
Wow, Lets see about next season!

-Smile is Simple-

AdrmiraLordNelson said...
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AdrmiraLordNelson said...

Who needs Fabs if you can surround Arsh with Russians!?!?!?!

Anonymous said...

wow AdrmiraLordNelson...

verbal diarrohea or what?!

Fab4 should stay. End of story

AdrmiraLordNelson said...
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Anonymous said...

Adrmiralordnelson are you drunk? I ask (1.) because you keep repeating yourself and (2.) because you've spelt your own name wrong!

James :)

AdrmiraLordNelson said...
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AdrmiraLordNelson said...
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AdrmiraLordNelson said...

sign Russians Theory is the best yet for our Gunners, anyone who disagrees better have a solid argument to support it!!!

Assistant Manager said...

ALN - you're kinda ruining it!

AdrmiraLordNelson said...
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AdrmiraLordNelson said...
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Assistant Manager said...

Seriously dude, you're usually one of my favourite posters on the blog but stop posting nonsense. I've deleted one offensive comment & I'll just keep deleting them.

I thought this debate might be a good idea to fill the time but if this is what it descends into in less than 90 minutes then it'll be the last!

AM

AdrmiraLordNelson said...

I honestly cannot think of any other thing to do if I was Arsene....you must complement Arshavin or get rid of him, that is the only way to bring the form he had in 2008 back...ditch Andrey and its a very subtle squad, hell you would be lucky to keep RVP in January with a squad like that...

Anonymous said...

Admiral - stop acting like a total buffoon. Losing respect for you.

Anonymous said...

Wow

ALN on speed is something to see!

Take a pause ALN!

Tekn0 said...

ALN-

Dude,seriously?
Your whining is worse than mine! >.<

I dont see the point in you repeating.
We got it the first time you told that signing Russians would help Arsenal get back on track if Fabs were to go!

Now why dont you just sit back, have some beer and listen to others opinion!? =|

You're just making an utter fool of yourself.
You're taking all this too personally and seriously!
AM just wanted to while away time, you're just killing the post! >.<

You've got some pretty good reputation here man, so dont ruin it, chill!

Anonymous said...

Re Fabregas IMO
1. You can lead a horse to water but cannot make him drink.
2. Premier Teams need a specific no. of home grown players to compete in Euro Comps. Arsenal are light on this type of player.
The money could buy the best of British.
3. With new signings "Cometh the hour cometh the man!'
I am not very football literate but tend to have commonsense.
Skill it's not

Anonymous said...

Calm down Admiral. I assure you a EL spot next season.

C****khoor

Anonymous said...

In my humnle opinion, they should just let Fabs go. there is no point keeping a half-hearted player on the team, it will only kill the atmosphere at the club. Plus i can see Fabs price seriously dropping next season. They should cash in on him now.

Kakashi

DeviLxDeviL said...

I think fabs will go, he need trophies IMO. OR unless wenger will buy at least 2 or 3 experience players, maybe fabs will change his mind.

Ian Sanderson said...

What's more important is how much he'll cost in the forthcoming fantasy game, plus CRon is back.

AdrmiraLordNelson said...

FYI I WAS drunk when i posted all of those!!!! lol

Assistant Manager said...

We forgive you :)

Anonymous said...

wondered why nobody told him that russia couldn't qualify for the world cup.

ToffeeDave said...

Wenger needs to convince Fab that he is going to buy players. Namely, A world class keeper they can win a title with...Almunia simply isnt the man. They also need a defender in the class bracket of Jagielka (who has been rumoured) to go there. I agree that if Fab and Persie were fit for at least 6 months of this season together, they would have won it. With all of arsenal's players hitting that age where they are now physically and mentally MEN, there should be no more excuses about being young next season. If you are 21+ you should not look for the excuse your too young.

Anonymous said...

In my opinion there's certainly a player of Fabregas quality in Everton, have you all forgotten about Arteta. I would love for him to go to United instead but since we're on a topic about filling Fabregas' shoes, I'd say he'd be top candidate.

-Saul

SK said...

This is my opinion of the situation. Cesc is torn not so much because he wants to return to Barcelona now, but because Barcelona is winning trophies while he's away not getting anything with Arsenal. Like Arshavin, he wants to push Wenger to buy more experienced players so they can go for a serious title challenge next year. So if Wenger do manage to buy a few more good players to his liking, I think he will choose to stay. I personally don't think Cesc told Wenger that he wants to leave, but rather using the Spanish media to push Wenger into making an agreement with Barcelona for a transfer either now or after 2 or 3 more years. He is also providing an opportunity for Barcelona to buy him, but if they fail, I think he will stay for at least 2 more years.

I cannot speculate on who would fit his shoes, or other players that Wenger should buy. I have heard a few names, but I'm sure Wenger will continue to surprise us so I shall put my faith in him as an Arsenal fan.

- SK

Anonymous said...

Agreed with you Saul.
Arteta is a player of Fabregas' calibre. I think he's underated at the moment. He quietly does his job at Everton so no one really notices.

bengoh91

Bradley said...

The news story that wouldn't die is finally over. Arsenal have finally signed Marouane Chamakh -- no really. He'd better perform well in the PL; from all the hype I got sick of hearing about him months ago.

ToffeeDave said...

Am you should make a post about this. It would raise interesting debate this summer. Just watch this video of a local footy show interview with this author.

http://video.thescore.com/watch/james-sharman-with-declan-hill

greginho said...

i am not crying yet because it is not official, but cesc was, hands down the most exciting central midfielder in the world. he pushed and pushed a broken team, scored ridiculously late goals, gave arsenal a fleeting chance at the title. not one central midfielder in the world did what he did.

most of the players, of his level, schneider, gourcuff, kaka, diego, gerrard, lampard, etc. didn't perform up to his level for a variety of reasons. some were a little injured kaka, gerrard, gourcuff. some played a different position than past, diego and lampard. some were consistent only at the beginning and end of the year, schneider. cesc was there, knocked up for many of the games and still performed. i think his playing so close to the strikers led to a deluge of important goals and assists.

what should arsenal get in return. pavluckenko is a worse player than eduardo. i think gourcuff and schneider, are the only players who player the same style, right up front with the forwards. only gourcuff is available. the reason why milan has struggled the last two years, is because they loaned out and eventually sold gourcuff, ridiculous. nasri is a deeper player like xavi or scheinsteiger, so he isn't the answer. a great choice is hernanes from Sao Paulo club. he is young, he just turned 24, has been courted by every club in europe, including liverpool. he has played most of his career in the xavi role, passing the ball around, getting free kick goals and assists, only. the last two years, Sao Paulo has had lots of commitments and are rotating the squad, in order to win the copa libertadores. he now plays behind the strikers and is scoring every other game, that is not a lie. he is still piling up the assists and takes all of the free kicks. in brasil, there is probably only one other player his equal, pablo henrique from santos.

the team needs a defender, i still like hangeland and he is not injured that much. yaya toure would be a welcome addition, because he would replace diaby. it is not a bad thing to say that you lose your starting position to brusquets. so he is better defensively and worse offensively, i like the idea of him with song. phillipe melo would love a fresh start and to go back to his normal position. he doesn't like where juventus plays him. at arsenal, melo would be my choice, because he is as good a defender as song, but a much unheralded offensive help. chamakh will take time to adjust to being put out wide of the single big man, unless arsenal put back in the 4-4-2, which he has played his french career in. if they go back to the 4-4-2 we know what arshavin did last year, he might stop talking gibberish to the press and start smiling and scoring. i think another wide defender is needed and to many names come up. if they could get dani alves as part of the swap, i won't cry one minute when my favorite player leaves for a team i like as well. year losing henry to barcelona was ok, losing him to real madrid is a sin.

Anonymous said...

I'm sorry to say this guys but there has been weigh too much talk about Arsenal, about Fabregas, about the lack of defence and forward in the squad, about the goalkeeper that's terrible....I'd say for a change, can't we find a different team to talk about, improvements they need and new possitive signings? Don't get me wrong, I like everybody's opinion and well thought and analized ideas but it's all the same as a few months back when Fabregas was being considered "World Class". How about talking about Tottenham AM and new players that are being considered for next season? Again I don't mean insult anyone and if I did, I apologize.

-Pichicho (GO MEXICO!)

I read everyone of your blogs week in, week out and I love the read. You're the best AM!

greginho said...

but the headline of this one is about the spurs. i think pichicho, you will have to wait your turn

greginho said...

is NOT about spurs sorry

Anonymous said...

I understand greginho, but what I am saying is there has been too much talk about Arsenal/Fabregas throughout the year. Other teams such as Manchester United, Chelsea, and Liverpool and others deserve the same kind of attention. In some words, what I'm saying is not all of us are Arsenal fans and we would like to give our opinion too if it's fair. I love this blog AM and I am not criticizing it, just thought we could make it an all around talk about all the premier league clubs.

Pichicho (GO MEXICO)

Anonymous said...

I'm talking more towards next season as I know now the main topic is transfers and Fabregas, possibly, moving to Barca is the most interesting thing happening right now, along with Grant becoming the new West Ham boss.

Pichicho (GO MEXICO)

DJ PIGG said...

As a Scot, I have had no strong preference for any English team since Kenny Dalgleish played for Liverpool in the 80's.

That all changed in the last couple of years, watching Arsenal with Cesc, RvP, Vermaelen et al.

I'm really happy that Chamakh has signed and, hopefully, with a world-class goalkeeper bought before the start of next season, Cesc will stay for another season.

Arsenal are SO close to being a great team again... I hope he stays to be the pivot around which Arsene can build the team.

Anonymous said...

arsenal do not need a world-class keeper. they need a solid one(one that just cut out the mistakes/jittery).

if arsenal want SG, by all means , please make a move for him, i'll be glad that we get to pocket a tidy sum while offloading the player with the highest wage in our team. while we at it, why not approach JC, he'll be cheap since he's on his last year contract;playing for england WC(potentially that is).

lampard has always been playing in the AMC role, if there is a change, it is him being dropping deeper this year than the past.

anyway, i say sell fab for 25mil+additional performance based payment(total up to 40). i think this is reasonable.

they money will go along way to reduce debt-keep the board off AW back- go la liga/epl and find a replica. if AW is bold enough, he could go for ireland. if he's willing to spend, milner.

on a side note,Fran Merida is heading back to la liga. bojan just don't cut it. for a replacement for fab from la liga, silva?

a good deal could be -get henry in a swap plus money- buy one middie- get the 'Beast', should be cheap since burnley's been relegated. Sorensen another cheap choice. Mark Schwarzer will be a prime choice as well.

~Newbie

SK said...

Newbie - I agree with what you are saying, except that I don't think 40m is reasonable at all. I would say it is better for Arsenal to value him at around 55m. IMO in the EPL this season only Rooney and perhaps Tevez had such a big influence on their team as Cesc. Cesc may not be ranked as high as Rooney based on their performance as a whole, but his captaincy is tremendous to Arsenal. If it takes definitely more than 60 m to sell Rooney to Real, then I see no reason why Cesc should be priced at much lower than.

- SK

AdmiraLord Nelson said...

Arsenal need defenders and midfielders not more forwards! For Chirst sake, we have Theo Walcott and RVP!!! we need to complement Tommy V (the world's best defender IMO) he saved Arsenal from extreme embarrassment this season time and time again....

AdmiraLord Nelson said...

Ok maybe one forward, but why did it have to be Chamakh!?! he seems too one-dimensional and untested in a physical league like the Prem, we shall see....

Anonymous said...

@sk, well, rooney has the hype - england's Hope. Tevez (will have/has) a few suitors whenever he is available in current times.
if you see CR7's deal, part of it will certainly be the shirt-selling decision that prompt Real to get in for him at THAT price. another factor(another factor do not means the only factor nor the decisive factor, keep this in mind) is being a key player in a team that won something as well, rooney/tevez/CR7 were part of a titlewinning team. i just don't see Fab having so much "following", and Barca IS the only one in the media "chasing" fab- thus a "devaluation". i'm not devaluing him but i clearly remember a certain incident like that my club(a few actually) - remember EMO? Owen's big mouth means Liverpool actually get only a paltry sum of 8mil, where he could probably get us 15mil back then had he been quiet. players come and go. but "loud mouth", NO way.

ALN- eduardo looks pants, RVP's injuryprone,walcott-speed and that's it(getting slower as it is/ and he had fears over his shoulder injury as well). bendtner did ok as a sub-in but long term wise he isn't at VP's level(that level of striker's instinct that is/ as well as rightfooted ONLY meaning plenty of chances go wasted as he need to stop and adjust the ball to his right Plenty of times). chamakh's scoring record isn't impressive, need time to bed in. so i think a henry will fit in.

need torres? be glad to sell after a bidding war between real,barca,chelsea,manc. join in the fun arsenal and may it be as high as possible. =)

arsenal certainly need a couple of defenders, no doubt. JC you want?

~Newbie

Anonymous said...

Another Goonner here.

Frankly, i think arsenal don't fab4 that much. if we could use the money to buy a decent keeper abd defender, the treble is ours :D

-Nik

Kellz said...

Hey Guys! Had a long vacation in San Francisco but back and glad to hear some lively debate!

Honestly Transfer time is great fun with all the speculation, but its the waiting that really breaks you down! The "ifs" and "maybe's" kill us all!

If I have to say one thing it is this: Arsenal NEED Fabregas, I agree with AM completely, had Fab4 and RvP stayed fit we could have had a very different title race. But heres the facts, Arsenal need to hold Fab4, but the lure of Barca is something too strong for a player wishing for glory. If Arsenal sign good players quickly, Fab4 will be more likely to stay, but honestly would you turn down an approach from Barcelona?

I think this saga will be drawn out until the transfer closing. Its my bet for a 60/40 Fab4 move to Barca. But anything can happen. Surely the EPL will suffer from his departure!

Good luck to everyone's tea min the World Cup, I am so excited!

Anonymous said...

Hey Kellz had I known you were down here in San Francisco we should've gotten together for a pint or two. Next time let me know when you come back.

-Saul

E said...

I'm not an Arsenal fan but I don't think Fabregas is some kind of dam that's going to destroy the team if he goes. Didn't everyone say the same thing about Ronaldo and Man United? If I've learned anything in the past three years of following the EPL closely it's that one player doesn't make a team. I'd like to see Wenger let the boy go and not try to replace him, just develop the team into something more sustainable.

Anonymous said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idLG6jh23yE

ENJOY !!!

C***khoor

AdmiraLord Nelson said...

watch Arsenal defence in Group A the most intriguing of groups except Group C and Group G...so much to lokk forward too this time around! so much to expect, hope that all of your expectations are satisfied!

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